Dec. 4, 2008

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The responsibility of being a Georgetown track student-athlete involves following in the footsteps of extraordinary runners who have distinguished themselves both on the track, as All-Americans, national champions, and world record holders, and in the classroom, as Dean's List students and honors graduates.

Phil Selden (C'02) was fortunate to sit down and have a chance to interview Federal District Court Judge Ricardo M. Urbina who, both during his time on the Hilltop and throughout his professional career, continues to set marks which all Georgetown student-athletes should strive to achieve.

Selden earned a bachelor of arts degree, magna cum laude, in government from Georgetown where, as a member of the track and field team, he was the first varsity athlete admitted into the Government Department's Honors Program. Following Georgetown, Selden earned a master's degree in government administration from the University of Pennsylvania and a law degree from Columbia Law School. He is currently an attorney at Arnold & Porter LLP in Washington, D.C.

Question: What was your greatest challenge as a track athlete?
Judge Urbina: Maintaining the level of training necessary to develop and improve upon my performances in high school (coached by Hungarian Olympian Steve Benedict) while at the same time maintaining my academics.

Question: Is there any one particular race you remember most about your time at Georgetown?
Judge Urbina: Winning the NCAA in Detroit my junior year happened so fluidly against some excellent athletes, but the race I remember best was the indoor 1966 IC4A Championships at Madison Square Garden in New York City. I was paired up with a runner who was determined to beat me and he passed me on the last lap of the race, but I passed him on the home stretch. The spectators in the Garden went crazy, and I remember them standing on their feet cheering. Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and his wife were there and the results of the race where on the front page of the sports section of the New York Times and New York Daily News.

I remember the Penn Relays and Georgetown's 4x1 mile relay because I anchored our team that race and in the final 15 meters the runner who was winning the race actually dropped his relay stick (which was apparent in a photograph) and despite my crossing the line after him Georgetown was not awarded the race. We protested the outcome but the other team was awarded the race. As a result, the next year Georgetown boycotted the Penn Relays and ran at the Drake Relays in Iowa. I was actually matched up on the anchor leg of the 4x800 against Jim Ryun (Ryun was the last American to hold the world record in the mile) and our relay team won that race.

Question: What was your favorite class at Georgetown?
Judge Urbina: Professor Ruff taught an English class that reinforced the notion that I could write well. He gave me particularized attention, sometimes with a lot of red, but more importantly he focused my attention on content and style that served me well throughout college and law school.

Question: How did it feel to have your son run for Georgetown?
Judge Urbina: I never wanted my son to feel under pressure, but when he became a distance runner that alleviated that problem. I was very proud to see him with the Georgetown colors on.

Question: Talk about your career post-Hilltop? Why did you decided to go to Georgetown law center and what was your experience like in law school?
Judge Urbina: Interestingly I spent a year a Georgetown as a pre-med student. I was not the only student-athlete who was either pre-med or in medical school. I can remember John Reilly (member of Georgetown's 1963 world record two-mile relay team) who at the time was in medical school at Georgetown and who would train with our team while in medical school. But after a year in pre-med I recognized that I was not cut out for medical school. At the same time our country was in the midst of the Civil Rights Movement with individuals like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. inspiring us to use peaceful means to enact change. It was at this point I decide to apply to law school to make a change.

Having had good academic experiences I decided to apply to law school and I expected it to be a continuum of my academic transition from high school to Georgetown. I believed I would enjoy the same ability to adapt that had provide success for me both academically and athletically. However, my first year at Georgetown Law Center was quite challenging as no one had provided me with the context necessary to study the law. I had to retrain my analytical and writing skills during that first year. The environment at the time was highly competitive and based on the Socratic method which was meant to train law students with a high level of challenging classroom interaction.

During my first year I was also newly married, working part-time (30 hours a week), and was training for the 1968 Olympics. During my part-time work I had an "ah-ha" moment that helped me throughout the remainder of law school and my professional career as a lawyer. I was assisting a local trial lawyer who was working on a murder trial. The evidence in the case was overwhelmingly against our client (the defendant) and the prosecutor had a great communication style but he lacked the ability to get his points across within an emotional context. Lawyers should look to change the attitude of a jury, because while you can't change their beliefs if you change their attitude then you can appeal to their sensitivities and I realized that was an "ah-ha" moment during the early part of my legal career.

Question: What was it like working as a public defender?
Judge Urbina: I tried my first murder case at age 25. At that time the courts had just shifted with all murder cases in Washington, D.C. being tried in Federal District Court to the DC Superior Court. I remember I represented a young lady who shot her boyfriend and I had to appeal to the sensitivities of the jury of how it was illogical that she would have intentionally committed this crime. There was an interesting revelation in that case. The government didn't reveal until later in the case that my client was actually pregnant by the deceased. All of which made for a very interesting experience.

Question: Can you talk about teaching at Howard Law School?
Judge Urbina: While I was at Howard Law School I helped direct the criminal justice program. I stressed to my students the value of developing courtroom skills in the classroom that they could apply later in their practice. It was at this point that the Dean asked me to apply for a judgeship on the DC Superior Court.

I have also spent the past 16 years as professor of trial advocacy at George Washington Law School. I am currently an endowed chair of trial advocacy. When I reflect on my time as an academic, I think that being a good advocate means you have to be a good teacher, where you help the jury feel intelligent. It is a similar experience as a teacher where you have to nurture a student, make sure that the student doesn't feel lost, some teachers don't understand why a student might not understand and issue. As a judge you have to make sure a jury does not feel lost, but in a different way. Specifically, by keeping ideas suspended for the jury. The judge is not an advocate, but instead needs to keep an idea suspended. What I mean is that you have to make the jury understand that information is not always immediately conclusive when it is offered.

Question: What about your experiences serving as a Judge in Superior Court and serving as a Federal Judge?
Judge Urbina: When you serve as a judge in Superior Court there is a rotation: Civil, Criminal, and Family divisions. The family division is the most complicated. It involves a rotation of cases involving domestic violence, child custody, abuse & neglect, and juvenile delinquency. I was up working from 5:30 a.m. and my days wouldn't end until late at night.

The distinction between my time working at the DC Superior Court and the District Court was the essence of distinction. In Superior Court there were more matters and fewer resources (one law clerk vs. three in Federal Court). In my Federal role I deal with both criminal and civil issues. As an example of some of my recent matters I am handling cases involving issues of constitutional dimensions both within the context of Guantanamo Detainees as well as constitutional law issues involving the right to bear arms within Washington, D.C.

Question: Do you see any parallels between the skills/challenges of being a student-athlete and the skills/challenges you faced during your professional career?
Judge Urbina: These challenges and skills helped create a framework for achievement for the rest of my life. Very simply I was an athlete in high school with no visible sign of talent and my coach impressed me with the need to be consistent, be diligent, and to have faith in the outcome that occurs from hard work. That same ethic applied to academics and through this same formula I was able to have success in the long term professionally.

For example, I was nominated to the Federal bench I was nominated by President Carter. When President Carter lost people, he said there was no chance that I would be confirmed by President Reagan. But I used the same formula and everyday I worked hard to contact people in the effort to be confirmed by President Reagan. I ended up being President Reagan's first appointment.

In the end I think this occurred not because I was remarkable, but because early on I learned the lesson of consistency combined with diligence and faith in the outcome that occurs from hard work.

Question: I understand that you still keep in shape through marshal arts, how do you manage time for this when you are in the middle of a trial? Is it analogous to when you were on the hilltop balancing school and academics?
Judge Urbina: I practice Aikido (8 years) and two years ago, after over 1,000 hours of training, I earned my black belt. I started off this endeavor in an effort to protect myself after I saw two men assaulting another man over a minor theft. I intervened but when I thought back on the experience I thought I might need to learn some form of self-defense. What started as an endeavor to protect myself evolved into my appreciation for an elegant and highly ethical marshal art. I see it now as the physical embodiment of peaceful reconciliation. Built within it is the ability to defuse situations. I also believe that all athletics has a spiritual component, and Aikido has this spiritual context.

I also swim and run several times a week and when I was younger I used to run marathons (six in total).

Question: I understand that you were born in New York but now live in Washington. Do you still root for any New York teams, or do you follow any D.C. teams?
Judge Urbina: When the Brooklyn Dodgers left New York that hurt. I would say I am a marginal Nats and marginal Redskins fan.

Question: Is there anything I forgot to ask?
Judge Urbina: I would be negligent if I didn't give Georgetown the credit is deserves. Georgetown put me in touch with myself spiritually, intellectually, and physically. It harmonized these factors. From the teachers and the Jesuits, to the hard work of my coach and athletes, to the ideals that Georgetown professed, all of these equipped me to deal with life.